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Zombie Master  |  Zombie Master  |  Source code discussion  |  Topic: Ajunk's view on the future of ZM production « previous next »
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Author Topic: Ajunk's view on the future of ZM production  (Read 92590 times)
OrtVouslex
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« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2009, 08:21:16 am »

So everyone that has replied to this thread, who has 1+ year of experience in C++? Or at least minimum experience so that people that just wrote "Hello World" or exercise programs are filtered out.

I guess this will be my last attempt of, in my honest and humble opinion, saying that you guys are talking too far ahead and that if you guys are serious about it, focus on the resources available. Or it will end up with just random, incoherent ideas that may not be even implementable due to the coders (or lack of).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 08:23:22 am by OrtVouslex »
OneTooManyZombies
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« Reply #81 on: March 04, 2009, 08:31:48 am »

I think it's only Tanner; he's working on other projects though.

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LokiFoki
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« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2009, 10:33:14 am »

Well I just feel like writing my longest post ever in this forum.

If we plan new features we should go through the best suggested features in this forum. Some of them got approved by the zm team.

- Poltergeist
Gives the spectators spmething to do while dead. They can push objects form time to time or other stuff that doesn't affect the running game too much. It's important to find a balance so the poltergeist's abilities don't feel redundant or they are to strong and have a too big impact on the running game.

- Impovised Weapons
The idea is to give the mappers the abilitiy to add own weapons to the map. With the possibility to change damage and speed and maybe choose out of a set of different animations (you don't swing a knife like you swing a chair). The really hard thing is to make the model fit into the models and animations of the survivors. The easiest way may be to edit the model and add some "attachment points" to it where the hands of the survivor should be etc.

- Inventory System
Was discussed several months or maybe a year ago. Someone might not know this.
In the first few versions of zm one was able to pick up all ammo without having the appropriate weapon. Since in the first version of dotd weapons were scarce it was nice that you could pregrab some ammo and then get the weapon. The downside was that dropping ammo worked the same way like now so you were only able to drop the ammo you had a weapon for. Because of that really big flaw the devs changed the ammo stuff but they said they might add a system someday that works right and makes pregrabbing ammo possible again.

- Clanbattle System
There was a system planned (AL mentioned is someday) that made it possible to have a 8vs8 fight with one complete team spawned as survivors and one of the other team being the zm. Atleast that's what I understood.

- Aura Zombie
A zombie that somehow improves the other zombies arund him. There were no details decided but the devs liked this idea.

So that's all I can think of. I'm disappointed. That isn't my longest post ever.

-zm_darkride  65% finished

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OneTooManyZombies
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« Reply #83 on: March 04, 2009, 10:39:01 am »

Wouldn't the ammo thing basically allow someone to pickup loads of ammo then keep it (greifing)?

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LokiFoki
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« Reply #84 on: March 04, 2009, 10:45:46 am »

Wouldn't the ammo thing basically allow someone to pickup loads of ammo then keep it (greifing)?

That is another downside but if we find a solution it would be great.

-zm_darkride  65% finished

do what loki foki said
OneTooManyZombies
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« Reply #85 on: March 04, 2009, 11:03:22 am »

We could have a weight system, or maybe make them drop (or respawn) all ammo when they get a gun?
Because the cool thing about ZM (or a lot of games like this) is how you use pickup ammo to take it with you, it's much more challenging.

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Darkjak619
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« Reply #86 on: March 04, 2009, 11:11:56 am »

I think what we should do is have 3 game modes One For Clans The current One But also a Gamemode where the ZM has to find a Safeplace at the end of the map and after the suvivors finish the map they have to hunt down the ZM and yes i know but what about the RTS well when the ZM Pushes the button M it brings him into RTS Vision
OneTooManyZombies
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« Reply #87 on: March 04, 2009, 11:53:45 am »

You mean like a... final boss hide-and-seek?

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UnInvincible
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« Reply #88 on: March 04, 2009, 01:15:54 pm »

Remember: Doom 3 lighting = not fun.
Yeah I thought of that after posting that...
I still think we should limit the number of players with the flashlight, maybe make it some kind of pick-up where if you get it then your flashlight is no longer disabled so you can still use weapons, and if you die you drop the flashlight so someone else can be able to use it.

my game keeps crashing as it loads, (i have all the expansion packs including the apartment life) and i am hearing that it might possibly be a custom content problem? how do i remove custom content?
JossiRossi
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« Reply #89 on: March 04, 2009, 01:32:29 pm »

Doom3's flashlight is unfun because you are alone. If you are with otherss it's less dumb.

Also at Ajunk: I think that running zombie base units alters the gameplay just far too much. You said earlier that shamblers aren't scary because you can outrun them, the way they should work is by being an enemy that can quickly overwhelm you. That's what's scary about them (in theory). If you are in a safe spot it's only a matter of time before they converge on you. A way to make them scary would be to make them headshot kills only which may work better in OB engine, as I believe headshot damage had some difficulty being detected in the regular HL2 engine. So on their own, not a threat. In packs a threat to be avoided. When you are low on health, possibly with reduced accuracy and all alone almost at the end of the level, holy fuck.

Mr. Valvetime
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« Reply #90 on: March 04, 2009, 02:48:41 pm »

Btw I could help out with coding. However I have like 0.01% experience with the source engine (coding wise) and only one semester where we were taught C++ (I know the theory and have only made 1 project. A multiplayer Battleship game.)

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JossiRossi
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« Reply #91 on: March 04, 2009, 02:52:36 pm »

Might be enough to start poking around to be honest.

Mr. Valvetime
LokiFoki
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« Reply #92 on: March 04, 2009, 03:02:18 pm »

This is my second attempt to write this because I accidently closed the window before.  Angry


To the Flashlight:
Additionally to the flashlight as an extra weapon, there could be the possibility to use the flashlight together with one handed weapons like pistols, or crowbar. That way one doesn't need to run around armed with the flashlight only to see something. It would make the pistols a bit more useful too.
Imo the first person pistol animations need to be changed in way that the survivor is holding pistols (and the mac) with both hands like they are already doing in the world animation. Maybe a slight accuracy loss could be added when using a flashlight together with a pistol because the survivor holds the pistol with one hand only.

To the Shambler:
I don't like the idea of a fast standard zombie. I think the fast zombie should remain a special zombie that doesn't appear in great numbers. And I think slow shambling zombies are frightening. I like the idea that they are slowly approaching. The problem is that as soon as they are there and crowded a place it's still easy to avoid their attacks.
This are some ideas that would make the survivors fear shamblers in a way they don't want to get near them:

1. Shamblers grabbing the survivors
The shamblers should be able to grab a survivor a hold him for a few seconds. Should not make much damage but gives other shamblers the chance to damage the survivor or to surround him. That would make the shamblers more efficient in big numbers and it would make teamplay more important since the other survivors could kill the zombie.

2. Shambler making a short sprint
In those old zombie movies with the slow zombies you can see that they are getting faster when they are near a human. It's like they get really hungry when the brain is only a few meters away. It might be a good idea do give the shambers just a small (~10%) chance to do that when he follows a human and is near him and the speed should be around the speed of a survivor or a bit less (it lasts only 2-4 seconds).

3. Shambler grabbing weapons away
In the movies you also see the shambers grabbing for everything and eventually disarm the survivor. The weapon could fall to the ground behind the shambler or remain in his hands until he dies.

All those suggestions would make a hoard of shamblers much more fearsome. If they get those abilities you would think twice before running through them like they are no threat at all like it is now.

Also making heavily wounded survivors a little bit slower and maybe give them different animations (lot of animation work for a optical effect) would make them fear some damage even more.

-zm_darkride  65% finished

do what loki foki said
OneTooManyZombies
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« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2009, 03:08:09 pm »

I agree with the shambler ideas. Right now everyone's just running through them, kind of takes the fear out of them.

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eeny
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« Reply #94 on: March 04, 2009, 03:23:28 pm »

As far as shamblers grabbing, I always thpught that shamblers should be able to do that, and then bite you, and then a set of keys flash on the screen and the camera moves to third person, and if you hit the keys you stagger the shambler and get away with only five damage, but if you don't the shambler rips its head up sharply with a chunk of flesh in its mouth, letting go of you in the process, and you lose 25 health points.



Sorry this was an idea that was always floating around in my head to make shamblers that much more dangerous in close quarters, and you guys were talking about shamblers and eveything...

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Sarge
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« Reply #95 on: March 04, 2009, 03:28:09 pm »

The problem I see with that is, what if there are just two shamblers and you get juggled between them? A few times between them would kill you. You would have to get some kind of system that would only let you get held and bitten on a time cooldown type thing, or every other shambler. Or something like that. Every shambler being able to grab and bite and hold would be a little to difficult.

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LokiFoki
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« Reply #96 on: March 04, 2009, 03:49:31 pm »

The problem I see with that is, what if there are just two shamblers and you get juggled between them? A few times between them would kill you. You would have to get some kind of system that would only let you get held and bitten on a time cooldown type thing, or every other shambler. Or something like that. Every shambler being able to grab and bite and hold would be a little to difficult.

I thought that the grabbing abitlity would have a chance of around ~5-10% to happen instead of a standard attack. But your idea is pretty good to avoid frustrating moments where you get grabbed right after getting free from another shambler. Making the survivors invulnerable to grabs for a few seconds after being released from a "hug" gives them a chance to get away.

And @eeny:
I meant the grab do do only a little damage and only last a few seconds. It should be dangerous when other zombies are there to finish you off. That would make the shambers a good support for strong zombies like hulks or immolators.

-zm_darkride  65% finished

do what loki foki said
Rukus
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« Reply #97 on: March 04, 2009, 04:12:16 pm »

What if you started this out working from the bare-bones of the ZM source code? Pardon if this was mentioned before, didnt read all 7 pages.

Probably the most time consuming part of starting completely from scratch is figuring out how AL managed all these NPCs on a multiplayer server.

Oh, so you just expelled gas and bits of poop into the air loudly during our intimate moment, but whatever.
JossiRossi
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« Reply #98 on: March 04, 2009, 04:24:46 pm »

Before posing read all the pages. Also Barebones ZM code doesn't mean anything. It's all or nothing. There are general directions and tips we could maybe ask the devs about though.

Mr. Valvetime
eeny
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+1


« Reply #99 on: March 04, 2009, 05:23:41 pm »

And @eeny:
I meant the grab do do only a little damage and only last a few seconds. It should be dangerous when other zombies are there to finish you off. That would make the shambers a good support for strong zombies like hulks or immolators.


Part of it is that shamblers are no where near as dangerous as they should be, even a horde of 50 shamblers could be held off completely by three players with pistols. I would like to see each zombie be dangerous by itself, and for me the ultimate danger with shamblers would be their ability to drag you down into a horde, and I'm not talking of just one zombie holding onto you, but multiple zombies latching on if one gets you. If multiple zombies latch on, you could lose the ability to stagger them off, and instead start taking a slow damage per second effect.

The counter to this is that you have friends who would be able to shoot the zombies off of you, and you still need that first zombie to latch on, a perhaps 2-5% chance attack that is thrown in with the shamblers other 12 attacks.

Slow, fodder when alone or in small groups, but deadly in large numbers just like shamblers should be according to the movies, comics, and books.

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