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Zombie Master  |  Zombie Master  |  Source code discussion  |  Topic: Ajunk's view on the future of ZM production « previous next »
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Author Topic: Ajunk's view on the future of ZM production  (Read 95044 times)
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« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2009, 03:54:05 am »

I would think some way to limit communication would be key.

However it is difficult to craft something that works in this regard without being annoying...
Hm.

Time to think for a while.

Shock value wouldn't work at all, save for once initially.
Decreasing max players may help a bit, but keeping people from constantly screaming at each other, even when dead, would be more important.

In fact, watching your team go from large mob to small huddled group would be more frightening then not if pulled off well.
Even better would be getting separated from the group and not knowing where they are, or even if they're alive.
Every noise could be either a herald of hope or doom, it would make turning a corner much more tense.

Just some thoughts.

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Milo
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« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2009, 04:02:13 am »

Scare factor is up to the ZM. Give him the tools and he can scare. But you can't depend on that, because most ZMs want to win, not scare. I mean, I'm more into winning then scaring.

You have to provide motivation to scare. Something that benefits the ZM for scaring the survivor.
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2009, 04:03:53 am »

ZM was originally meant for only 6 people I believe? Smaller numbers is not a bad thing, the voice chat being changed to radius is something I personally really enjoy. RnL has that and while not applicable here it's neat to hear the enemy team talking when you are close to them. Also good objective maps is certainly not a gameplay factor we'd need to change as we already have them and they work well with the mod.

I wouldn't want it to be cheap scares either. The two biggest things I can think of for helping scares along is to put a lot of effort into sound design. Both from a sound design and a map implementation viewpoint. If you can make it so that listening to your surroundings will help you survive you can get pretty jumpy. "Did I hear x zombie" or "did that column just creak as it were about to fall?" are things that make a huge difference. I don't have a good answer for this but also a damage system that helps add to it. I'd personally remove the HUD health counter and randomize damage hits a bit more. That way you never know just how close to the edge you are, maybe one more shambler swipe and it's over. Not talking like 0-50 damage, but something like 2-20 with the average hitting at 10. Another idea (that could be used in combination with) would be limb damage where each hit has the chance to wound (probably never fully incapacitate) a limb so you either move ever so slightly slower or your aim is degraded.

One thing ZM has that many mods do not is that death matters. Some maps take 10-15 minutes to complete. If you die real fast, you have to wait around. It's all about providing the opportunity for people to get into the game. System Shock 2 often freaks me out because for the most part it's a very absorbing environment for me. I get sucked into it and parts of my brain forgets that I'm just playing some silly game.

Mr. Valvetime
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2009, 04:29:08 am »

Radius chat is a great idea, and I definitely think that should be looked into.  Never said that small groups was a bad thing, just that it isn't the only thing holding back the scare factor in the game.  The damage system is intriguing, not being sure of how much health is left would be quite tense.  However that brings up another issue- the HUD.  Though functional, the current one is basically the same as HL2.  To make it more realistic, maybe not only remove the health but also change the ammo counter. Replacing it with another indicator would be ideal, however I cannot think of a suitable replacement.  Possibly changing the ammo amounts as well? Have guns do more damage but far less ammo available, as the current maps for ZM have an insane amount.  I hardly think that random farmhouses would be stocked with several hundred rounds of machine gun ammo.  Rifle ammo might be common place, as well as shotgun ammo, but hand guns and automatic weapons are less common being that they aren't used for hunting.

Disabling spectators from interacting with the survivors would also be a good idea, as someone that just died conversing with you is a strange concept.

As Jossi mentioned sound is key, and makes games much more immersive.  This might be a terrible idea, but subtle random sound effects could be interesting to play around with.  Not anything you can pin down or distinguish, but wind sounds, slight moans, etc.  The issue would be implementing them so they don't become repetitive and monotonous after a while, like the lines repeated by NPCs.

Can't think of much else to say that hasn't been said already, and I'm exhausted.
I apologize for the poor organization of the above writing, but I can't be bothered to go back and fix it.

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Rukus
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2009, 04:36:30 am »

Ahem.

Eternal Silence and INsurgeny are Ep1 engine. Dystopia may be, but still- LET'S GET STEAMWORKSED. We shuld elect a representative to talk to Valve (not Rukus)

I second this motion.


Great idea Ajunk, but ZM2 sounds strange. Mods that have numbered sequels usually have negative feedback. How about Zombie Master: (insert subtitle here)?
_______________________________________________________________________________________

I would be willing to help test, and possibly do anything else you might think I would be suitable for.
Which isn't much, but I can help.

^ Same here.

We'd also have to remove the chatbox (typing) option to make comm limits work. Or could the comm limit work with the chatbox as well??
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 04:47:57 am by Rukus »

Oh, so you just expelled gas and bits of poop into the air loudly during our intimate moment, but whatever.
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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2009, 04:44:16 am »

* ACCIDENTAL DOUBLE POST *

Oh, so you just expelled gas and bits of poop into the air loudly during our intimate moment, but whatever.
worbat
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« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2009, 08:44:12 am »

Jossi as for goals. I think we should add "the whistler" and a flare gun maybe not both out at the same time.
Make some custom maps official eg gasdump if it ever gets updated. Getting integrated into steamworks, for long time goals.

Short time goals. Get in the mod page of the steam store.

EDIT: oh and make it impossible for upgrades.

EDIT 2: remodel drifter?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 09:06:50 am by worbat »

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« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2009, 10:23:23 am »

I'm not convinced that a new start is a great idea.
Ajunk said that we can learn from the current zm so the new zm would be builded faster. But that applies to gameplay only and not to coding. All the problems the zm coders ran into and solved.... we will get the same problems but we must solve them on our own.
Sitting there and coding a mod for atleast a year is hard. It is even harder if you recreate a mod that is already there. Most mod-remake-projects fail.

Sorry for saying "we" although I'm not a coder at all.  Wink

-zm_darkride  65% finished

do what loki foki said
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« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2009, 11:06:43 am »

It's like if you're told to draw a triangle, it's going to be much easier to draw a new one than copy one exactly.

it's like when you press on a calculator screen and it turns purple
trust me I know my shit
worbat
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« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2009, 11:50:15 am »

It's like if you're told to draw a triangle, it's going to be much easier to draw a new one than copy one exactly.

That's the point of starting afresh we have the coregameplay sorted out, a fresh build up would mean that the coder would not have to learn the current code of Zm.

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AndyTheGeeky
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« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2009, 08:49:44 pm »

It's like if you're told to draw a triangle, it's going to be much easier to draw a new one than copy one exactly.
But you know how to draw a triangle from having done it innumerable times, or at least from easily discerning the components and seeing how to make those.
With ZM, you may be able to discern the base components, but are you able to figure out all the coding required?

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« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2009, 09:48:28 pm »

What if we were able to get the source code for the current ZM from tGB and use that to help know how to code things in the new version? I've never programmed a mod before, so I have no idea if that would be much help, but I thought it made sense.

my game keeps crashing as it loads, (i have all the expansion packs including the apartment life) and i am hearing that it might possibly be a custom content problem? how do i remove custom content?
worbat
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« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2009, 09:49:42 pm »

I guess it would give a guide.
That's a guess though.

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jdoggy123
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« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2009, 10:04:50 pm »

Wow I have to say Milo you fucking killed ajunks awesome speech. As to ZM2 it sounds cool but unless we can actually get a team together, with a skilled mapper, coder, and modeler then its never going to happen. Good luck though
EDIT: Oh and why not just post this on the official thread instead of making a new thread?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 10:06:56 pm by jdoggy123 »
worbat
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« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2009, 10:07:59 pm »

I have to agree with you on the official thread thingy.

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Milo
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« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2009, 10:13:29 pm »

Wow I have to say Milo you fucking killed ajunks awesome speech.

WELL LA DEE DA
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« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2009, 11:05:38 pm »

Well, I think if we garner enough ideas then it could happen.
God knows we have enough skilled people...

And it seems far more likely that we're able to make a second ZM type game, the new engine and project would attract more people, both in playerbase and help.
Besides, as has been mentioned several time, it would be near impossible to work with the code already established, a fresh start enables us to go in any direction we want.

Its much like rewriting a paper.  Going in and changing things, then fitting it into the rest of the paper makes for something disorganized and messy.  Its generally much better to start anew if you want to make any changes beside small tweaks.  At least thats what I've picked up on from discussions.

So first things first:
Who wants to continue ZM dev on the current game?
Who wants to create a new game revolving around the same basic premise?
Other?

Before splitting into little factions and arguing, lets go with the democratic route.
Which ever gets more votes is the route we take initially, no arguments.

And votes only count if you are an established member of the community, are known to be useful, or can be vouched for.
So no people with three posts coming in with "LOL LETS DO THIS!!11!" or some shit.

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« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2009, 11:08:55 pm »

I would do audio, as would Worbat as he said not too long ago in here.
For the record I will be deleting any and all offtopic posts with impunity. If you need to talk take it elsewhere please, I don't want to have to kill potentially content worthy posts to keep this place clean.

Mr. Valvetime
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« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2009, 11:21:19 pm »

Well, if we do choose to go with another engine it could take a while, but we can last until then. So far I'll go with the new game, same premise idea.

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« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2009, 11:23:34 pm »

I really can't do anything right now...
I'd like to learn C++ and eventually Source but I haven't found any good tutorials on C++ (granted, I haven't tried that hard).
So for now I'd just like to be an "idea person" and possibly tester.

And I support the idea of starting fresh, but if we could get the coders the old source code then I think it could help them out.

my game keeps crashing as it loads, (i have all the expansion packs including the apartment life) and i am hearing that it might possibly be a custom content problem? how do i remove custom content?
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Zombie Master  |  Zombie Master  |  Source code discussion  |  Topic: Ajunk's view on the future of ZM production « previous next »
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