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Zombie Master  |  Zombie Master  |  Source code discussion  |  Topic: Zombie Master: Black Edition « previous next »
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Author Topic: Zombie Master: Black Edition  (Read 68636 times)
fifi
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Posts: 585


« on: June 24, 2009, 05:30:46 am »

Zombie Master: Black Edition
Design Outline
written by fifi
(fifi@tr-racing.de)

Team:
Project Lead, Coding, Textures: fifi
Modeling: cat



//Core Concepts



The goal of this ZM Spin-off Mod is to create a slower paced variant with adding in some modern genre elements.
An Extreme ramp-up of difficulty will create "more panic with fewer zombies".

1. New Zombies
2. Extended Arsenal
3. Different Weapon Handling
4. Ramped up difficulty






//New Zombies
The basic goal is to create two basic "archetypes". "Traditional" shamblers as appearing in older
zombie movies and faster "running" ones, as seen in the 28-movies.
Both will have a ordinary human shape and skeleton as far as animation is concerned. There won't
be any extreme difference in shape like the enormous hulk. In short, they will be very similar in
appearance and only differ in behaviour.


//Sub-classes
Current Design plan lists the two basic types:


Runners
-Faster than survivors

shamblers
-Slower than survivors
//--------------------------------------------


//Zombie Damage
The damage of an attacking zombie will be quite extreme. While not 100% decided, it will be 1-2 hits
to kill a human. Most likely 1 hit.
The weapon performance will follow this idea and get ramped up compared to ZM levels. Current Plan
is 2-4 body hits with a normal handgun (1911).



//Backward Support for old maps
Some new weapons will match their existing "type" in ZM. For example, the 1911 Colt will take the place of the weapon_zm_pistol in order to make
old ZM maps compatible with ZMBE without any extra work by the map creator.
However there are some exceptions to it. The Molotov and Sledgehammer will be reomoved completely. They will simply disappear from the map
if they were previously placed in it.



//Weapon List

Approved:
(These are 100% approved and are being worked on.)
Fists
Pipe
Colt 1911 Government
Remington Wingmaster 870

(More weapons are being considered)



//No Ammo Respawn

All items placed on a map will not respawn once picked up.


//Modified Accuracy Code
Modified for a deeper level of weapon control and shooting.
(See update below for more info)



//Art Assets
For a first release the following assets are planned:
5-6 New weapons
1-3 New player models (likely modified existing HL2 civilians/rebels)
2 New Zombies (+ Custom animations)



//Maps

As explained above, the mod is going to support standard ZM maps*. Wether we will create new maps from scratch for it is not yet determined.
*Molotovs and Sledgehammers will disappear from existing maps

This thread is supposed to give a first look and explain some of the concepts. I will update it with updates on development (both coding and art).
Feel free to suggest ideas such as weapons, zombie types etc.

Note:
Posts containing personal attacks against me or cat will be ignored
This feature outline is not necessarily complete. More stuff will be added on the fly and news updates will cover this.








Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2009, 05:31:02 am »

placeholder

//Developer Update 1


/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Task 1
//Displace Aim before firing the bullets

Normal HL2 Shotgun code centers its cone of spread around the view direction.
Which is bad if you want to have a shotgun with tight spread but no extreme
accuracy.
Changed code to displace the aim off the center before firing.


/Completed!
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Task 2
//Remove Weapon and Ammo respawning

/Done - Check if it works
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Task 3
//Remove Molotov without breaking existing maps

-Removed Molotov from FGD
-Removed Molotov Script file


/Completed! Sort of.
/Molotov disappeared from test map. Without any "model" errors.
/Console error appears, however this is not breaking the game.
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



On the new accuracy code:



Normal HL2 Shotgun code centers its cone of spread around the view direction.
Which is bad if you want to have a shotgun with tight spread but no extreme
accuracy.
Changed code to displace the aim off the center before firing.
This basically allows me to simulate long-barreled shotguns more realistically. As you can see on the screenshot, each shot has a verydense
impact pattern, while still havng some inaccuracy.
This also works great for pistols and automatic weapons. For example instead of a stiff cone, The accuracy for an SMG will creep from very accurate to inaccurate.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 05:37:29 am by fifi »

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
CrazyChicken
Poster

Posts: 610


Beep Beep Boop


« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2009, 06:03:21 am »

Sounds intersting, I'd like to see how this turns out. I don't like the idea of zombies killing you with one hit hope that doesn't effect gameplay to much.

Most Neutral Poster
Release: ZM_BlackMesa1, TTT_Bank, TTT_Backalley
All my maps start with "B" hmm...
Major_Casualtie
Poster

Posts: 1159


°«♠»°


« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2009, 06:04:02 am »

From the way this sounds so far, I think I'll probably play it.

Damn, trends hit this forum harder than Chris Brown hit Rhianna.
Date Registered:     September 18, 2007, 12:56:43 AM
Werewolf
Poster

Posts: 1601


Sealed Suit > Gasmask


« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2009, 06:30:45 am »

I'm not a fan of how easily the zombies kill you as I've had my fair share of deaths to shamblers hitting me as I ran by while I was on my last legs. Would be incredibly lame to get pimp-slapped by a shambler as I ran past because they have insta kills now.

Maybe if they had to grab you, ala the "Clots" from Killing Floor, who can't just pimp-slap you as you run by (but can grab you as you do so, but that gives you a small time window to try and not die, which I think is fair. It's also more cinematic and zombie-like to grab and NOM)

I dunno. 1 hit seems so incredibly lame. Shamblers in normal ZM already kill you in just four.

I am however, a fan of the weapon tweaks, especially the shotgun. Realistic shottie ftw.

I think you're taking the whole serial killer thing way to far.
Tactiger9
Poster

Posts: 2013


Wait, wut?


« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2009, 07:39:30 am »

Okay, I like the idea so far, just can you tell cat and such to make sure it doesn't resemble zombies master's style too much, also maybe think about using a different name or just make sure people know its not related to zombie master (in the sense that its made by different people), just out of respect.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 07:41:46 am by Tactiger9 »

One I dropped acid and blacked out, when I came around it turned out that I spent the last eighteen hours playing Silent Hill 3, beat it with a decent score actually.
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2009, 07:57:53 am »

Quote
Okay, I like the idea so far, just can you tell cat and such to make sure it doesn't resemble zombies master's style too much, also maybe think about using a different name or just make sure people know its not related to zombie master (in the sense that its made by different people), just out of respect.

"ZM: Black Edition" is already approved by TGB. There will be clearly visible statements that it is based on the Source code, both in the readme and in the title menu screen.

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
Tactiger9
Poster

Posts: 2013


Wait, wut?


« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2009, 08:00:32 am »

Cool as.

One I dropped acid and blacked out, when I came around it turned out that I spent the last eighteen hours playing Silent Hill 3, beat it with a decent score actually.
worbat
Santaman
****
Posts: 13450


Fnar Fnar Fnar


« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2009, 08:38:00 am »

I'll give it a fair go. The firing cones are interesting. Oh and fifi, make cat texture his maps. Really do, it will help your splinter mod a lot.

20:25 - Waluigi: Apparently everyone is freaking out about GFWL for no rason
rason
rason
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2009, 09:01:30 am »

Developer Update 2


/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Task 4
//Check if to re-use existing Remington Shotgun Animations
-Screw it, going to start from scratch

/Pending
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//Task 5
//Create new hands viewmodel

-Ripped hand Model off the rebel mesh
-Rig to Skeleton
-Fiddle with texture


/Completed!
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Completed Remington 870 Wingmaster Express Model.
As you can see the extra long barrel demands  custom accuracy code. A 10 degree spread (standard HL2) would not do justice.

Screenshot of the viewmodel hands. Combined Rebel NPC arms + HEV suit hands.
These may get a retexture once the look of the player models is determined.

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2009, 09:09:06 am »

Quote
I'm not a fan of how easily the zombies kill you
We are aware that it is very risky to have such extreme damage values. I am personally not sure yet if it will be one hit or two. But at least two hits. The basic idea behind is that when players see a zombie, they should switch into instant panic mode and avoid close combat at all costs. I could try other variants to keep the fear level of players high.
For example I was thinking of some form of "infection" damage similar to ZPS.

If a player is hit, there would be a random chance of (%) to get infected. Then the player would either slowly lose all his health over 1-3 minutes or die instantly after some time. However, since I am more of a newb coder I am not sure if my skills are yet advanced enough to code this. But I am looking at his variant. I just do not want to boast about many cool featurs that  I or cat are not sure if we can handle it.

I think drownling damage in Hl2 works similar. Might check how that works.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 09:10:17 am by fifi »

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
MOSH-PO-TAY-TO
Poster

Posts: 1718


Disco Disco.


« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2009, 09:52:41 am »

Is it going to be more like a SMOD: Tactical ZM mod? I dont mean like that zombie mode in smod, but i mean like, more realistic bullet penetration and such?  If so, cool!

In a shameless act of self promotion Skeleton's Bone Pile - Australian Killing Floor Community.
McViolent
ZM2 Admin
*****
Posts: 7427


Boler's Bane


« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 10:00:30 am »

Is it going to be more like a SMOD: Tactical ZM mod? I dont mean like that zombie mode in smod, but i mean like, more realistic bullet penetration and such?  If so, cool!
However, since I am more of a newb coder I am not sure if my skills are yet advanced enough to code this.
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 10:30:30 am »

Quote
Is it going to be more like a SMOD: Tactical ZM mod?

I only played SMOD briefly. We won't have Irongsights because that is too steep for my coding skill. Bullet penetration might be added. Let alone for the shotgun. Because blasting through several zombies with one shell is just too cool to not try coding it in. Currently (without any penetration code) the shell stops at the first zombie.

All in all I am going for quite some realism (without Ironsights though). We are both big fans of reality mod for BF2. And their weapon handling is the "role-model" I look up to. For example the reloading and firing rates are quite slower than your average HL2 Mod. The Remington shotgun will have a considerable kick, which will 1)Displace the crosshairs quite a bit, making follow up shots less accurate, and 2)increase the delay for the next shot.
Similar things are being coded in for the Automatic weapons. However I have not determined yet which will be added. So if we for example add in an AK47, expect the second and third shot of a burst kick up strongly. Unless you fire in very short bursts, you won't hit anything after 20m. Weapons with less powerful ammo like the MAC10 for example would have a much more controllable burst.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2009, 10:35:59 am by fifi »

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
OneTooManyZombies
Build Tester
*
Posts: 9091


« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2009, 01:48:51 pm »

I wish it goes well.

it's like when you press on a calculator screen and it turns purple
trust me I know my shit
Werewolf
Poster

Posts: 1601


Sealed Suit > Gasmask


« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2009, 03:20:53 pm »

We are aware that it is very risky to have such extreme damage values. I am personally not sure yet if it will be one hit or two. But at least two hits. The basic idea behind is that when players see a zombie, they should switch into instant panic mode and avoid close combat at all costs. I could try other variants to keep the fear level of players high.
For example I was thinking of some form of "infection" damage similar to ZPS.

If a player is hit, there would be a random chance of (%) to get infected. Then the player would either slowly lose all his health over 1-3 minutes or die instantly after some time. However, since I am more of a newb coder I am not sure if my skills are yet advanced enough to code this. But I am looking at his variant. I just do not want to boast about many cool featurs that  I or cat are not sure if we can handle it.

I think drownling damage in Hl2 works similar. Might check how that works.

Players pretty much do that already when they see shamblers. Only experienced ZM players really have the balls to run through a mass of shamblers - everyone else panics and strafes around shooting them like a moron (why do people strafe while shooting melee monsters? The world will never know).

I'm iffy on infection. On one hand it sounds kinda cool, on the other it doesn't sound very fun. Realism and all is cool but when it infringes on fun it means people tend to not play the game.

I only played SMOD briefly. We won't have Irongsights because that is too steep for my coding skill. Bullet penetration might be added. Let alone for the shotgun. Because blasting through several zombies with one shell is just too cool to not try coding it in. Currently (without any penetration code) the shell stops at the first zombie.

All in all I am going for quite some realism (without Ironsights though). We are both big fans of reality mod for BF2. And their weapon handling is the "role-model" I look up to. For example the reloading and firing rates are quite slower than your average HL2 Mod. The Remington shotgun will have a considerable kick, which will 1)Displace the crosshairs quite a bit, making follow up shots less accurate, and 2)increase the delay for the next shot.
Similar things are being coded in for the Automatic weapons. However I have not determined yet which will be added. So if we for example add in an AK47, expect the second and third shot of a burst kick up strongly. Unless you fire in very short bursts, you won't hit anything after 20m. Weapons with less powerful ammo like the MAC10 for example would have a much more controllable burst.

Two thoughts here:
- Shotguns don't require penetration coding. Unless a shottie is loaded with slugs, it doesn't penetrate much more than flesh and thin walls. Hitting a zombie would stop the buckshot end and lodge it in said mobile corpse.
- The AK-47 has a powerful kick but it's not quite that powerful. You can pull off a three round burst with a fair amount of accuracy. 7.62x32mm is not that powerful of a cartridge. The M14, a weapon with a comparable catridge (7.62x52MM NATO) can be fired in bursts with accuracy and does fairly well despite it's design being pretty poor (traditional rifle design doesn't handle automatic rifle recoil very well - it kicks the whole rifle upwards. A pistol grip and stock like on the AK helps mitigate recoil significantly).

An AK-47 is infinitely more accurate than a MAC-10. An AK-47 has a proper stock and is a rifle, while the MAC-10 typically is bereft of a stock and is a bullet-spammer with too high a ROF to be much of anything else. It's accuracy is also hindered by it's caliber. An AK-47's powerful rounds are equiped with a lot more gunpowered and have a nice, long rifled barrel to traverse - this gives great accuracy. The MAC uses .45's which are pretty slow moving bullets and it has a small barrel.

tl;dr, shotguns don't need much in the way of penetration, AK-47's are not as inaccurate as depicted in movies and the like.

I think you're taking the whole serial killer thing way to far.
Barry Burton
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Posts: 1607


It's Barry time! yeah.


« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2009, 05:50:01 pm »

I think one hit kills will be fine for the zombies as long as:
1) The attack speed is slower than normal.
2) fast zombies can't kill in one hit.

Not to judge guys or anything, but Barry is much better looking than Joest.
Killroy
Build Tester
*
Posts: 1625


« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2009, 06:44:45 pm »

Why black edition?

And can either of you two model?

I clicked on that link, but quickly closed the tab before it loaded upon realizing that the file name was whalecock.jpg.
MOSH-PO-TAY-TO
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Posts: 1718


Disco Disco.


« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2009, 10:09:47 pm »

And can either of you two model?

Pretty sure cat is a modeler.

In a shameless act of self promotion Skeleton's Bone Pile - Australian Killing Floor Community.
fifi
Poster

Posts: 585


« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2009, 05:50:45 am »


This is bob, the testzombie.
He is used to test out different zombie stances and walks. We also managed to get flinching animations working, however there still some SMD issues to remove.






Quote
And can either of you two model?
What do you think where that shotgun model comes from?

Zombie Master Black Edition
http://www.zmbe.org

Official Moddb Page and forum
http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master-black-edition/forum
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