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Zombie Master  |  Other  |  Games  |  Topic: Starcraft 2: Al is a bad person « previous next »
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Author Topic: Starcraft 2: Al is a bad person  (Read 9288 times)
Marphy Black
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« Reply #140 on: August 04, 2010, 06:50:18 pm »

Show Kiwi what astounding innovations to game play they made that makes this game so completely different from SC1.
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« Reply #141 on: August 04, 2010, 08:44:19 pm »

It's a sequel. Sequels aren't exactly known to be great departures.

Still, there is a update to the game in general, new engine, graphics, units and abilities. Also a new campaign and other various new things.

Yes, it's still Starcraft. But that's because it's Starcraft 2.

Pikmin 2 was still Pikmin, and so on.
catbarf
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« Reply #142 on: August 04, 2010, 09:06:08 pm »

Still, there is a update to the game in general, new engine, graphics, units and abilities. Also a new campaign and other various new things.

Wouldn't you expect something more from a full, $60 sequel to a 12-year-old game than a graphics overhaul and new campaign?

Compare Doom 2 and Doom 3. Or Wolfenstein 3D and Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Or Half-Life and Half-Life 2. There are massive, readily apparent differences beyond the graphics. Starcraft 2 is the same game with a coat of paint and it's a little hard to justify $60 for an RTS with gameplay from the late 90s.
Rotinaj
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« Reply #143 on: August 04, 2010, 09:43:46 pm »

so I found this cool argentine link entitled 2 starcraft, but it appears to just be two isos of the original starcraft

Kiwi
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« Reply #144 on: August 04, 2010, 09:48:52 pm »

It's a sequel. Sequels aren't exactly known to be great departures.

Still, there is a update to the game in general, new engine, graphics, units and abilities. Also a new campaign and other various new things.

Yes, it's still Starcraft. But that's because it's Starcraft 2.

Pikmin 2 was still Pikmin, and so on.

Ok then, let's compare how much change Starcraft has to C&C series

Tiberian Sun came out about the same time so let's start with it. (Changes implemented post-Tiberian Sun)

Red Alert 2- Implements Tech Buildings and allows infantry to garrison structures, the expansion is the first of the series to add a third faction

Generals- The first in the series to have each individual buildings have a build queue, adds support powers as well as a level up aspect to the game (General rank) absent from C&C 3 but returns in RA3, adds some researches, and adopts standard RTS controls

C&C 3- Major interface overhaul, such as allowing tanks to move in reverse, so that they can resume while retreating

RA3- Change in unit design philosophy, giving every unit a secondary ability (all of them bound to the same hotkey), giving minor things to some units while major changes in abilities for others.

NOTES: Kiwi is ignoring things being refined (Kiwi doesn't count the unit ability thing in this as they clearly strove to give EVERY UNIT and based much of the game around it)

In closing, comparing this to what Starcraft did

StarCraft 2- Pretty paint, deciding to toss things up by stealing from someone other then Games Workshop (Kiwi's looking at the Jet Tengu here)

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Pyro93735
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« Reply #145 on: August 04, 2010, 11:56:19 pm »

Starcraft II has plenty of innovations over the first Starcraft. Protoss can warp units in to anywhere there's a pylon, not to mention the air tree is almost entirely different with phoenixes and void rays. Zerg infestor is nothing like the previous support unit, the defiler and the queen adds a new dynamic to larva generation for zerg. Terran's build tech labs/reactors onto barracks, factories and starports to allow for tech swapping and diversification of unit production.

I can name more if you think you've got a legit argument about the lack of innovations. Also, comparing the entire C&C series to a two-part series is kind of skewed - and the aforementioned changes easily rival the "you can build tech buildings" change from Tiberian Sun to Red Alert 2. Kiwi, you also conveniently forgot to mention the innovations between Command and Conquer 3 and 4, which were fucking terrible.

For people bitching about a single campaign - it has more missions than all of the original campaigns combined (excepting Brood Wars).
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 12:03:19 am by Pyro93735 »

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Pastor
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« Reply #146 on: August 05, 2010, 12:20:43 am »

Kiwi allready said.
Please
Saying "they replaced Unit X with Unit y that does the same + this" doesn't count.

Also the its a valid to compare it since they almost got 12 freaking years to complete it. And yeah 4 screwed it up but at least they took chances by trying to add new stuff and it only one bad move in pretty successful series.

They basically did the same thing that Serious Sam HD, but instead of telling the truth saying, its the original game but with today prettiness they went lololol its a sequel 60 bucks.
Also you can already tell this is game for tactical geniuses since the only way i read to win level X is spam X
Stop being so goddamn Korean


Kiwi
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« Reply #147 on: August 05, 2010, 01:41:34 am »

Protoss can warp units in to anywhere there's a pylon,

Warping units to buildings sounds slightly familiar, Kiwi wonders where he's seen that before....

Nah, Kiwi hasn't seen it anywhere before.

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not to mention the air tree is almost entirely different with phoenixes and void rays.

Please
Saying "they replaced Unit X with Unit y that does the same + this" doesn't count.
Zerg infestor is nothing like the previous support unit, the defiler and the queen adds a new dynamic to larva generation for zerg.

Please
Saying "they replaced Unit X with Unit y that does the same + this" doesn't count.

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Terran's build tech labs/reactors onto barracks, factories and starports to allow for tech swapping and diversification of unit production.

That's expanding upon the add-ons for Terran buildings from SC1, not an innovation, if that is an innovation then the re-vamp of the veterancy system from TS to RA2 would apply as Veterancy actually mattered and came into play every now and then in RA2.

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I can name more if you think you've got a legit argument about the lack of innovations.

Do they all fall under "They added unit X that does this!" or they "gave unit y this" because if so, you can keep them.

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Also, comparing the entire C&C series to a two-part series is kind of skewed

Why not? They both had the same amount of time to make these changes, also if you want something a bit more fair, look at Dawn of War 1 and Dawn of War 2.

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and the aforementioned changes easily rival the "you can build tech buildings" change from Tiberian Sun to Red Alert 2.

Since when could you build tech buildings, just in case your Korea mind cannot understand, tech buildings are the neutral buildings that you can capture to turn to your advantage in some way, which affected all factions, not just 1, so no, your changes aren't that great.

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Kiwi, you also conveniently forgot to mention the innovations between Command and Conquer 3 and 4, which were fucking terrible.

Kiwi had only played 2 games in the beta, which he did not like, but who knows, it might have grown on him. Besides the key-point is they tried something different.

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For people bitching about a single campaign - it has more missions than all of the original campaigns combined (excepting Brood Wars).

Maybe people like to not have to buy the same game 3 times to play as their favorite faction in a campaign? (even if they do charge 40 for it, that's still a full priced PC game, and not an expansion)

You can go ahead and try to counter this with some more examples if you want, but please take note of the changes Kiwi mentioned, did Kiwi ever mention a particular unit or even a particular faction?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 01:43:26 am by Kiwiâ„¢ »

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Worbat: You killing me constantly was so frustrating, I quit in disgust.
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[16:47] Jeff: British is not an ancestry. Britain is an accident of noble marriages, pregnancies, and deaths.
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« Reply #148 on: August 05, 2010, 02:31:04 am »

On a side note, I'm pretty sure that the price is all Activision and not Blizzard.

In anycase, I'm not feeding trolls or getting into arguements, so I won't...

... Though; Lol at Blizzard supposedly stealing from Games workshop
UnInvincible
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« Reply #149 on: August 05, 2010, 02:57:21 am »

Well they did change the way the entire way the campaign works. Walking around your ship and getting new units, upgrades, talking to people, etc. You couldn't do that in SC1. What say you to that, Kiwi?

my game keeps crashing as it loads, (i have all the expansion packs including the apartment life) and i am hearing that it might possibly be a custom content problem? how do i remove custom content?
Kiwi
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« Reply #150 on: August 05, 2010, 03:01:30 am »

On a side note, I'm pretty sure that the price is all Activision and not Blizzard.

This is about the business practices used in selling the game, it doesn't matter which one made the decision as they're pretty much one and the same in this regard, seeing as how they merged.

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In anycase, I'm not feeding trolls or getting into arguements, so I won't...



Well they did change the way the entire way the campaign works. Walking around your ship and getting new units, upgrades, talking to people, etc. You couldn't do that in SC1. What say you to that, Kiwi?

Finally, someone that makes a good counter. Where were you earlier? Kiwi is actually curious as to what exactly this is.


« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 03:04:40 am by Kiwiâ„¢ »

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Pastor
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« Reply #151 on: August 05, 2010, 03:04:16 am »

Lol at Blizzard supposedly stealing from Games workshop



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« Reply #152 on: August 05, 2010, 03:20:44 am »

Finally, someone that makes a good counter. Where were you earlier? Kiwi is actually curious as to what exactly this is.
As I don't actually own Starcraft 2, I can't explain it fully, but from what I understand you walk around the ship as the main character, Jim Raynor, and can talk to your crew mates, buy new special units, or buy unit upgrades that you get the rest of the game. There's also an arcade game somewhere on the ship, I guess. It all sounds pretty interesting and a lot more immersive than SC1's talking heads before a mission.

Also, apparently there are some points in the game where you actually have to make decisions on who to help, ally with, etc.

Mostly I'm trying to make a good point because I'm a bit tired of yours and Pastor's flooding of this thread with your hate because you're such big Warhammer fans. Can't you just get over it?

my game keeps crashing as it loads, (i have all the expansion packs including the apartment life) and i am hearing that it might possibly be a custom content problem? how do i remove custom content?
Kiwi
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« Reply #153 on: August 05, 2010, 03:31:36 am »

As I don't actually own Starcraft 2, I can't explain it fully, but from what I understand you walk around the ship as the main character, Jim Raynor, and can talk to your crew mates, buy new special units, or buy unit upgrades that you get the rest of the game. There's also an arcade game somewhere on the ship, I guess. It all sounds pretty interesting and a lot more immersive than SC1's talking heads before a mission.

That actually sounds like an interesting change. Which Kiwi has seen next to no mention of.

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Mostly I'm trying to make a good point because I'm a bit tired of yours and Pastor's flooding of this thread with your hate because you're such big Warhammer fans. Can't you just get over it?

And there goes Kiwi's hope for a good discussion. Kiwi doesn't like what this game did from what he's seen it hasn't changed THAT much as something that's been in development for 12 years. Kiwi's not flooding this with "BLIZZARD IS TEH SUX THEY STOLE WARHAMMER" that particular thing only bothers Kiwi when people just say it never happened. Kiwi just doesn't like Starcraft that much or like what he's seen from this.

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Worbat: You killing me constantly was so frustrating, I quit in disgust.
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[16:47] Jeff: British is not an ancestry. Britain is an accident of noble marriages, pregnancies, and deaths.
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« Reply #154 on: August 05, 2010, 03:51:26 am »

Well I caved and bought me some starcraft.  From what I've played of the campaign, it is quite enjoyable.

Also here's my Battle.net stuff.

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Username Exists
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« Reply #155 on: August 05, 2010, 05:49:14 am »

It's a sequel. Sequels aren't exactly known to be great departures.

Still, there is a update to the game in general, new engine, graphics, units and abilities. Also a new campaign and other various new things.

Yes, it's still Starcraft. But that's because it's Starcraft 2.

Pikmin 2 was still Pikmin, and so on.

Quoted for ultimate truth!

SC2 is exactly what i was hoping for. They have changed and added enough things to make it look like a nice successor but not too much to piss off its fans.
Thing is most of the people hating SC2 right now didn't like Starcraft 1 in the first place and probably haven't even played it. Come on lets face it, according to the picture of you thread most of you were like 6 years or younger when the game came out.

If you don't like SC2, i am fine with that. If you say it is too expensive, i agree with you, but bringing forward the argument that it hasn't changed anything is just dumb.

It is the same with Mario Galaxy 2, which was hated for beeing supposedly just a Mappack.

And there goes Kiwi's hope for a good discussion. Kiwi doesn't like what this game did from what he's seen it hasn't changed THAT much as something that's been in development for 12 years. Kiwi's not flooding this with "BLIZZARD IS TEH SUX THEY STOLE WARHAMMER" that particular thing only bothers Kiwi when people just say it never happened. Kiwi just doesn't like Starcraft that much or like what he's seen from this.

12 years passed between SC1 and SC2, that is correct, but development started about 5-6 years ago.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 05:57:58 am by Username Exists »

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« Reply #156 on: August 05, 2010, 06:24:54 am »

12 years passed between SC1 and SC2, that is correct, but development started about 5-6 years ago.

So the amount of time the Dawn of War series has been around?

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Username Exists
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« Reply #157 on: August 05, 2010, 06:27:05 am »

So the amount of time the Dawn of War series has been around?
Don't know about that. Does it matter?

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« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2010, 07:56:48 am »

He's probably meaning that in the time it took Relic to make or introduce 5 games, adding several radically different and game changing races, two full campaigns, an entirely new way of playing the campaigns and then making a sequel that played almost totally different to the first series, a full expansion for that which added another race and again a slightly different campaign structure (as well as creating and expanding on the CoH series), Blizzard added some paint, an admittedly long and fun campaign and updated the controls and other misc additions.


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GlobalEnjoi
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« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2010, 08:40:00 am »

Hasn't Blizzard worked on some pretty successful games in that time? World of Warcraft, 3 expansions, Diablo 3, Warcraft 3, Torchlight...

Okay maybe not the last one.
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